G.P. — Incest and HomosexualityMany people are affected directly or indirectly by homosexuality. A highly organized and aggressive effort has been mounted in society, in churches, and the highest levels of government to silence all public opposition to homosexuality, homosexual marriages, adoption of children by same-sex couples, and the mainstreaming of this God-condemned rebellion against Holy Writ. The efforts of the homosexual constituency, unfortunately for mankind, have been very successful. This feature will deal with the challenges issued by a recent visitor to GodSaidManSaid.
G.P. — Incest and Homosexuality
The following e-mail came from G.P.:
It is quite laughable how you can judge us homosexuals even though God is the only one who should be judging us. I dare you to read this email instead of just deleting it, because I am very curious how you can justify persecuting homosexuals. This email is not intended to be hateful or demeaning to you. I want to know why you believe that homosexuality is a choice. Do you really believe that the millions of homosexuals in this country all chose their sexual preferences, knowing that they would be judged and persecuted and put through social ostracism? And I must say that I read your page that quoted the scriptures, and most of the quotes do not even directly refer to homosexuality. It is your interpretation. And if we are going to quote the scripture, how do you explain and justify all the incest in the Bible?
G.P. goes on to cite various relationships which today would be classified as incestuous. His references are from Genesis 19 and 20.
You must understand that I am not trying to be rude with this email. I just honestly do not understand how Christians can be so against homosexuals when we are people just like you. What ever happened to the golden rule? Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. I would never want to condemn you for your flaws and shortcomings, and Lord knows that we all have them. Why can't you be more accepting? [End of quote]
Homosexuality, according to God’s Word, is an abomination. Also according to God’s Word, those who do not repent and turn from homosexual deeds are doomed to eternity in the Lake of Fire. But there is forgiveness and deliverance in the blood of Jesus Christ. Choices must be made.
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Homosexuality is not just sin against God, but a sin against nature. The June 26, 2008 issue of the weekly publication Nature, which embraces and promotes the false theory of evolution, made this brief statement concerning evolution and homosexuality:
In evolutionary terms, homosexuality might be a detrimental trait that stops people from passing on their genes. [End of quote]
The fruits born of this gross disobedience are truly devastating. On GodSaidManSaid, the following subjects deal directly with this issue:
The fruits of homosexuality are truly tragic. Just a few fruits mentioned in the articles above are listed below. Research from 1992 pegs their average life span at just 39 years for those who die of AIDS, and 41 years of age for homosexuals dying from all other causes. They are 5,000 times more likely to contract AIDS. Lesbians are 19 times more likely to contract syphilis. An estimated 50% of all gay men are HIV positive. Homosexual youths are 23 times more likely to contract sexually transmitted diseases. Homosexual men and women report a depression rate of roughly twice that of the heterosexual community. Only one percent dies of old age. This data does not take into consideration all the devastated families, suicide rates, etc., and the horrendous financial burden borne by society at large. Research data varies from report to report, but know of a certainty, the results are horrific.
We are taking time to address G.P.’s charges for his sake and for others who are being affected directly or indirectly by homosexuality. A highly organized and aggressive effort has been mounted in society, in churches, and the highest levels of government to silence all public opposition to homosexuality, to homosexual marriages, gays’ adoption of children, or the mainstreaming of this God-condemned rebellion against Holy Writ. The efforts of the homosexual constituency, unfortunately for mankind, have been very successful. This feature will deal with the e-mailer’s challenges.
G.P. said, “I read your page that quoted the scriptures, and most of the quotes do not even directly refer to homosexuality. It is your interpretation.” [End of quote] The scriptures that G.P. is referring to are listed below:
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
(Also read Leviticus 18:22 and Deuteronomy 23:17-18.)
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
I Corinthians 6:9-10:
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
G.P. said, “It is quite laughable how you can judge us homosexuals even though God is the only one who should be judging us. I dare you to read this email instead of just deleting it, because I am very curious how you can justify persecuting homosexuals.” [End of quote] Jesus clarifies the judgment issue in John 12:47-49:
47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
The Word of God declares the truth concerning an issue. Judgment falls upon those who disregard His truth. GodSaidManSaid has published God’s Word concerning the subject of homosexuality. Far from persecuting, we have cited God’s judgment concerning this terrible self-destructive bondage. We have cited God’s requirement of repentance and departure from this sin, and we have cited God’s offer of full forgiveness and reconciliation. John 12:48:
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
And yes, G.P., all will be judged by that word in all regards of this life at a soon-coming judgment day.
G.P. said, “I want to know why you believe that homosexuality is a choice.” [End of quote] The “gay” community has been busy attempting to prove to the world that homosexuality is inherited and not an act of one’s choice, as though God is responsible for their abhorrent deeds and not they themselves. Research on this subject will follow.
Not one of us chose to enter this world being spiritually dead in trespasses and sins. Not one of us chose to be born carnal and doomed. King David wrote in Psalms 51:5:
Behold, I was shapen in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.
We didn’t choose to be born this way, but all of us chose whether to remain in that condition. This is the entire principle of becoming born-again in Christ Jesus—being born a second time. The new birth is accomplished spiritually and eternally, free from the bondage of sin. We become sinless and pure with the seed of Christ dwelling, growing, and developing in us. We can save the homosexuals from spending more resources in seeking a birth root to their bondage because it is inherited. It is rooted in carnaldom and in the law of sin and death. But it doesn’t have to be that way, for God has made a way of escape. This is our choice.
The following excerpts are from the GodSaidManSaid feature article titled “Homosexuality.” They address the subject of heredity/genetics and the “gay” lifestyle:
The question arises concerning whether homosexuals are born homosexual. If so, the blame for homosexual deeds is not on the individual but on genetics, and ultimately on God (for those who believe in God). This blame‑shifting exercise is being effectively used by Satan throughout the homosexual community and their affected “straight” loved ones, to sanitize and normalize homosexual behavior. The Satanic purpose of this position is to mainstream this wickedness.
Concerning “genetic” homosexuality, the homosexual camp's argument has proved to be a “straw man.” The following published articles lend proof:
1. An article in Scientific American, Nov. 1995, was titled “Gay Genes Revisited: Doubts Arise over Research on the Biology of Homosexuality.”
2. The following is an excerpt from the Archives of Genetic Psychiatry in an article titled “Human Sexual Orientation: The Biologic Theories Reappraised.” In the article, William Byne, a psychiatrist with a doctorate in biology, and Bruce Parsons carefully analyzed all the major biological studies of homosexuality. They found none that definitively supported a biological theory of causation.
3. Author and sociologist Steven Goldberg, Ph.D., writes:
Virtually all of the evidence argues against there being a determinative physiological causal factor and I know of no researcher who believes that such a determinative factor exists¼such factors play a predisposing, not a determinative role¼I know of no one in the field who argues that homosexuality can be explained without reference to environmental factors.
“Gay criticism has not addressed the classic family configuration”; it has merely “asserted away the considerable evidence” for the existence of family factors. Studies which attempt to disprove the existence of the classic family pattern in homosexuality are “convincing only to those with a need to believe.”
4. In the Journal of Human Sexuality (1996), J. Satinover, M.D., writes:
There is no evidence that shows that homosexuality is genetic¼and none of the research itself claims there is. Only the press and certain researchers do, when speaking in soundbites to the public.
5. The following quote is from Dr. Joel Gelernter of Yale University concerning the various studies attempting to link genes with complex human behavior. He says:
All were announced with great fanfare; all were greeted unskeptically in the popular press; all are now in disrepute.
One of the studies in “disrepute” was conducted by Salk Institute researcher Simon LeVay. He studied the brains of 35 male cadavers and reported that the cluster of neurons called INAH3 in the hypothalamus was generally smaller in 19 of the 35 cadavers. Those 19 were known to be homosexuals. The remaining 16 cadavers, who were reported as heterosexual, displayed a larger neuron cluster. Mainstream media touted this research as a genetic link to homosexuality. Upon closer scrutiny, Mr. LeVay’s research had at least three major flaws. First, the sample was too small. Second, the sexual orientation of the 16 classified as heterosexual was highly suspect (Six of them died of AIDS.). And third, it has never been proven that the hypothalamus has anything to do with sexual orientation.
6. In 1993, another study was conducted by Dean Hamer of the National Cancer Institute. He studied 40 pairs of homosexual brothers. He discovered that 33 pairs had DNA markers in the same chromosome region known as Xq28. This study was heralded by a liberal media eager for this kind of “scientific” support that homosexuals are born that way, therefore legitimizing the lifestyle. The Hamer study has since been discredited. Besides the sample size being too small, there was no heterosexual control group where markers may or may not have been found. A similar study was later conducted by George Ebers of the University of Western Ontario. His study was of a much larger sample and it contradicted Hamer’s conclusions. Eber reported his results and said they “do not support an X‑linked gene underlying male homosexuality.”
Finally, there is no science that homosexuality is genetic. However, I should note that the unborn child can be affected in the mother's womb by a spirit (See Matthew 1:18, 20; and Luke 1:15, 39‑44). But the solution, outlined later in this information, is still the same. [End of quote]
G.P. said, “And if we are going to quote the scripture, how do you explain and justify all the incest in the Bible?” [End of quote] The following paragraphs are from the GodSaidManSaid feature, “QandA, Incest:”
Dr. Henry Morris and Dr. Martin Clark weigh in on the subject of incest in their book The Bible Has The Answer:
Now, at least one son and one daughter of Adam and Eve had to marry each other in the first generation after the beginning in order for the race to get started at all. There is no other possibility if all men are descended from Adam and Eve as the Bible teaches.
In later generations, brother‑sister marriages would come to be recognized as genetically dangerous and would be prohibited as “incest.” Not only the Bible but also most other legal codes refuse to sanction marriages of close relatives. The scientific reason for this restriction is that children of such marriages are more likely to be deformed or sickly or moronic than those of other marriages. The genetic basis for this probability is that inherited mutant genes, producing such unwholesome characteristics, are more likely to find expression in the children if they are carried by both parents.
However, there were no mutant genes in the genetic systems of Adam and Eve, as these had come directly from the creative hand of God Himself. Thus no genetic harm could have resulted had Cain or some other son of Adam married his sister. In fact, it would undoubtedly have taken many generations before enough genetic mutations (which are random, and therefore harmful, changes in the highly ordered structure of the germ cell, brought about by penetration of the cell by shortwave‑length radiation or some other destructive agent) could have accumulated in the human race to make such marriages of close relatives genetically harmful.
The Bible is thus always consistent, not only with its own statements, but also with all known facts of science. [End of quote]
God’s directives and commandments regarding man changed enormously as a result of the fall of Eve and Adam. As the law of sin and death entered, Adam and Eve became mortal. Adam lost his job and he and his wife were booted out of paradise. The world’s residents who were once 100% vegetarian, in many cases became meat‑eaters, leaving a bloody trail of “kill or be killed.” Romans 8:22:
For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
The situation of Cain marrying his sister and the laws of God given later concerning incest are certainly not a contradiction. Sin and death entered and things changed, therefore God put commandments in place to protect the obedient. One of them was the commandment concerning incest. [End of quotes]
Finally, concerning incest, the GodSaidManSaid article “Incest” weighs in with the following:
GodSaidManSaid has received inquiries concerning what appears to be a scriptural contradiction regarding God’s commandments on matters of incest, pointing to Cain’s marrying of his sister. However, there is no contradiction. Originally, brother‑sister marriage was permitted by God, for the purpose of populating the earth. If it were not that way, who could they marry? It was Adam and Eve, then Cain and Abel and their brothers and sisters who were first born on the earth. The commandment against brother‑sister marriage, for example, is penned approximately 2,500 years after Adam opened his eyes. One of the primary problems of marrying close family members is the increased likelihood of inheriting what are known as lethal recessive genes. The following excerpt is from an August 2003 article by Richard Conniff in Discover magazine:
The great hazard on inbreeding is that it can result in the unmasking of deleterious recessives, to use the clinical language of geneticists. Each of us carries an unknown number of genes—an individual typically has between five and seven—capable of killing our children or grandchildren. These so‑called lethal recessives are associated with diseases like cystic fibrosis and sickle‑cell anemia.
Most lethal genes never get expressed unless we inherit the recessive form of the gene from both our mother and father. But when both parents come from the same gene pool, their children are more likely to inherit two recessives.
Again, the feature article points out that if the original parents handed down a healthy genome, such as the perfect combination of Adam and Eve, their descendants could intermarry for generations safely. The article continues:
At least until small deleterious effects inevitably began to pile up and produce inbreeding depression, a long‑term decline in the well‑being of a family or species. [End of quote]
There is no contradiction, then. It was simply a commandment whose time had come. [End of quotes]
G.P., none of us chose to be born into this world spiritually dead in trespasses and sins, but all of us choose whether or not to remain in that condition. Deuteronomy 30:19:
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
Authorized King James Version
“Evolution: Model Lives,” Nature, 6/26/2008, p1146
GodSaidManSaid, “Q and A: Incest”
- What God Said About Bi-Racial Marriages
- Why Is The Black Man Black and White Man White?
- Homosexuality Updated
- Is There Life in Outer Space?
- The Perfect Diet (Updated)
- Hauntings, Dead Spirits, and Ghosts
- Which Bible? (Updated) Part I
- Which Bible? (Updated) Part II
- Sodom and Gomorrah
Acts 1:8 (KJV)
But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost parts of the earth.